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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:45 pm 
The New York Civil (Criminal?) Liberties Union is protesting suspensions of Central Islip students who walked out of their classrooms to protest budget cuts according to an article in Newsday today.

This is the kind of nonsense that teachers and schools have to put up with anytime they try to discipline students.

If the kids walked out of class and out of the building, they cut the class and should be willing to pay the penalty. The school district was absolutely right to suspend the kids and that should have been the end of it.

The demonstration would have been just as effective after school or at a school board meeting, but, of course, that wouldn't have given the students the opportunity to miss class. It reminds me of my college days during the Vietnam War protests when many students suddenly felt great conviction against the war and expressed their deeply felt "conviction" by holding strikes (not attending exams) during final exam week. Such sudden idealism and freedom of speech -- horsefeathers! It was phony then and it is phony and hypocritical now when the objective is avoiding responsibility.

It is the efforts of parents opposed to the suspensions and groups like the criminal liberties union that undermine the connection between an action and taking responsibility for that action. More and more, kids are encouraged to "do whatever you want" because mom and dad will cover for you, and if that fails, we'll get a lawyer or call the criminal liberties union, channel 12 and Newsday.

How much time and taxpayer money will be wasted if the arguments about this wind up in court? How many hours will administrators waste on the phone dealing with this?

If we are not going to let the schools discipline students who do not follow the rules, we might as well close them down and send all of the students home and let the parents home school them all and handle the discipline themselves.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:26 pm 
guest2034 wrote:
The New York Civil (Criminal?) Liberties Union is protesting suspensions of Central Islip students who walked out of their classrooms to protest budget cuts according to an article in Newsday today.

This is the kind of nonsense that teachers and schools have to put up with anytime they try to discipline students.

If the kids walked out of class and out of the building, they cut the class and should be willing to pay the penalty. The school district was absolutely right to suspend the kids and that should have been the end of it.

The demonstration would have been just as effective after school or at a school board meeting, but, of course, that wouldn't have given the students the opportunity to miss class. It reminds me of my college days during the Vietnam War protests when many students suddenly felt great conviction against the war and expressed their deeply felt "conviction" by holding strikes (not attending exams) during final exam week. Such sudden idealism and freedom of speech -- horsefeathers! It was phony then and it is phony and hypocritical now when the objective is avoiding responsibility.

It is the efforts of parents opposed to the suspensions and groups like the criminal liberties union that undermine the connection between an action and taking responsibility for that action. More and more, kids are encouraged to "do whatever you want" because mom and dad will cover for you, and if that fails, we'll get a lawyer or call the criminal liberties union, channel 12 and Newsday.

How much time and taxpayer money will be wasted if the arguments about this wind up in court? How many hours will administrators waste on the phone dealing with this?

If we are not going to let the schools discipline students who do not follow the rules, we might as well close them down and send all of the students home and let the parents home school them all and handle the discipline themselves.



it's sad to see someone ( i am guessing here) who will loudly scream about his Love for his country and constitution totally throwout our constitution when its fits their own political agenda.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:59 am 
it's sad to see someone ( i am guessing here) who will loudly scream about his Love for his country and constitution totally throwout our constitution when its fits their own political agenda.[/quote]

You want your kid walking out of school whenever he/she wants without consequence? Another genius!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:44 am 
Anonymous wrote:
it's sad to see someone ( i am guessing here) who will loudly scream about his Love for his country and constitution totally throwout our constitution when its fits their own political agenda.


You want your kid walking out of school whenever he/she wants without consequence? Another genius![/quote]


Sorry einstein nobody said that, it is your hysteria which wants to abandon the constitution


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:16 am 
Nobody is abandoning the constitution, nor restricting free speech. Just as freedom of speech does not give one the right to scream "Fire!" in a movie theater, it does not guarantee the person making use of free speech protection from the consequences of his or her actions.

The demonstration could easily have been be held after school or at a school board meeting. Newsday and Channel 12 would have come running as demonstrations are great on TV and web videos. They are "news"; students working hard for upcoming AP and Regents Exams are not "news".

The reason it was held during school was to get out of class, otherwise it would have been held after or before school or more effectively, at a school board meeting.

Now, if students want to walk out of class, away from the supervision of the school and take the consequences for their actions, I have no problem with that. In fact, that is what happened.

What I object to is trying to get the punishment applied for walking out lifted. That disconnects the person from responsibility for his or her actions. In essence it says that regardless of the consequences to others any action is fine if the individual carrying out that action is OK with it.

So, I would assume you would be fine with a student rapping on bongos in class completely disrupting things and making it impossible for your child to learn because the bongo player was expressing his freedom of speech? Somehow, I don't think so. I wouldn't allow it in my class, I'll tell you that.

Similarly, when a group of students walk out of a school it disrupts classes (missing students) and affects other students by distracting them from their work watching the demonstrators out the window, texting back and forth, etc.

If the issue was so important to these students, they could have chosen to make presentations at the school board meeting as Sachem's AP French students did. That would have been responsible and might even have gotten results. The school board is the decision making body. Walking out of class harming their classmates progress only got these students time off from school, neither responsible, nor effective. (And, believe me, as a teacher my sympathies are with the students in opposing cuts, but there is a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things.)

Of course, the student demonstrators will no doubt expect the teachers whose classes they walked out of to go over everything they missed when they return, wasting even more of the classes' time. After all, it is all about letting them following their whims at any time isn't it?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:59 am 
"What I object to is trying to get the punishment applied for walking out lifted. That disconnects the person from responsibility for his or her actions."


This is now the norm. Parents calling/writing letter to bail their kids out (missing homework, failed courses, student misconduct etc.)I have even heard of many parents calling colleges and professors on behalf of their kids. Very scary.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:23 am 
guest2034 wrote:
Nobody is abandoning the constitution, nor restricting free speech. Just as freedom of speech does not give one the right to scream "Fire!" in a movie theater, it does not guarantee the person making use of free speech protection from the consequences of his or her actions.

The demonstration could easily have been be held after school or at a school board meeting. Newsday and Channel 12 would have come running as demonstrations are great on TV and web videos. They are "news"; students working hard for upcoming AP and Regents Exams are not "news".

The reason it was held during school was to get out of class, otherwise it would have been held after or before school or more effectively, at a school board meeting.

Now, if students want to walk out of class, away from the supervision of the school and take the consequences for their actions, I have no problem with that. In fact, that is what happened.

What I object to is trying to get the punishment applied for walking out lifted. That disconnects the person from responsibility for his or her actions. In essence it says that regardless of the consequences to others any action is fine if the individual carrying out that action is OK with it.

So, I would assume you would be fine with a student rapping on bongos in class completely disrupting things and making it impossible for your child to learn because the bongo player was expressing his freedom of speech? Somehow, I don't think so. I wouldn't allow it in my class, I'll tell you that.

Similarly, when a group of students walk out of a school it disrupts classes (missing students) and affects other students by distracting them from their work watching the demonstrators out the window, texting back and forth, etc.

If the issue was so important to these students, they could have chosen to make presentations at the school board meeting as Sachem's AP French students did. That would have been responsible and might even have gotten results. The school board is the decision making body. Walking out of class harming their classmates progress only got these students time off from school, neither responsible, nor effective. (And, believe me, as a teacher my sympathies are with the students in opposing cuts, but there is a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things.)

Of course, the student demonstrators will no doubt expect the teachers whose classes they walked out of to go over everything they missed when they return, wasting even more of the classes' time. After all, it is all about letting them following their whims at any time isn't it?


I think everyone is missing the "800 lb gorilla" in the room.
That is: why would MS Students walk out in the first place?
Either the Students were smoozed by Teachers who may loose their jobs or salary
or their Parents were smoozed by the Teachers who may loose their jobs or salary.

This would not be on the agenda for a MS/HS Student unless they were listening to the moaning & groaning & "woe is me" comments from one or both of those groups.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:22 am 
Maybe someone was "schmoozing' the 800 pound gorilla and he got loose.

As a result we all lose.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:59 am 
I would like to know how a 10 year teachers contract was put through under the taxpayers nose in CI with raises step raises you name it ..Teachers are getting let go, but the teachers staying still getting their raises with no changes in their contract..Things are totally upside down..The taxpayer again is not being represented, beacause of the special interest groups kissing up...I do agree the students should not be able to get away with walking out of class, but I think we are going to start seeing more protects as time goes on all over the Island..


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:56 am 
The teachers should get paid well. They are in a tough district. The tenure contract has nothing to do with the countries economy.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:31 am 
guests wrote:
I would like to know how a 10 year teachers contract was put through under the taxpayers nose in CI with raises step raises you name it ..Teachers are getting let go, but the teachers staying still getting their raises with no changes in their contract..Things are totally upside down..The taxpayer again is not being represented, beacause of the special interest groups kissing up...I do agree the students should not be able to get away with walking out of class, but I think we are going to start seeing more protects as time goes on all over the Island..


It happened because the taxpayers of Central Islip allowed pathetic teacher supporter Board members to control the majority Board.

For this year: 2011-2012:
Step 10/MA Lane=$80,629
Step 15/MA Lane=$97,049
Step 28/MA+90 Lane=Top Step & Top Lane CI=$156,385

By last year in the Current Contract in 2014-2015:
Step 10/MA Lane=$89,646
Step 15/MA Lane=$107,903
Step 28/MA+90 Lane=Top Step & Top Lane CI=$173,848


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:34 am 
Wow!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:08 am 
Anonymous wrote:
The teachers should get paid well. They are in a tough district. The tenure contract has nothing to do with the countries economy.


Please you speak like they all have to wear a kevlar
vest...lol..


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:50 pm 
Anonymous wrote:
guests wrote:
I would like to know how a 10 year teachers contract was put through under the taxpayers nose in CI with raises step raises you name it ..Teachers are getting let go, but the teachers staying still getting their raises with no changes in their contract..Things are totally upside down..The taxpayer again is not being represented, beacause of the special interest groups kissing up...I do agree the students should not be able to get away with walking out of class, but I think we are going to start seeing more protects as time goes on all over the Island..


It happened because the taxpayers of Central Islip allowed pathetic teacher supporter Board members to control the majority Board.

For this year: 2011-2012:
Step 10/MA Lane=$80,629
Step 15/MA Lane=$97,049
Step 28/MA+90 Lane=Top Step & Top Lane CI=$156,385

By last year in the Current Contract in 2014-2015:
Step 10/MA Lane=$89,646
Step 15/MA Lane=$107,903
Step 28/MA+90 Lane=Top Step & Top Lane CI=$173,848


I guess this does not show a corrolation between teacher pay and student performance..... seems like they're paying with without getting the results in the classroom.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:08 pm 
Anonymous wrote:
it's sad to see someone ( i am guessing here) who will loudly scream about his Love for his country and constitution totally throwout our constitution when its fits their own political agenda.


You want your kid walking out of school whenever he/she wants without consequence? Another genius![/quote]

No fool the genius's were the men who wrote our constitution and Bill of rights, you are an i diot.
its funny how the brain dead that are always screaming about their love of this country and our constitution are always the first ones to try to get rid of it when it s suits their narrow fascist agenda under the guise of freedom


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